I am just wondering when or if we will ever have anything to run our vehicles on besides gas. I know something is out there, but how long until we can use it?
I have heard that the government runs their military vehicles on hydrogen, and that GM is working on motor vehicles that will just run off of water.
I have also heard of biodeisel engines, where you can put used restaurant grease in where the gas goes and run your car off of that. I could maybe do that, I work at a restaurant where we throw out grease all the time, but I think maybe you have to adjust your engine for it to get used to using the biodeisel instead of regular diesel?
Any thoughts on how we can break free from this gas price robbery besides having to ride a bicycle? That’s not an option for me because I go to school 30 miles away from my town. I am looking for just a little rice grinder car to save on gas but until then just wondering what everyone else thought.
Originally posted 2009-08-28 14:20:17.
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no, hydrogen is too combustable. if you get in an accident, you may not be the only one dead…
there is a big push to make electric motors more efficient, up to 70% more effient motors are now in the prototype phase. I believe this will be the way cars will go as well.
Bio-Diesels are diesel engines that have been specially equip to handle the processed fuel. You don’t just dump grease in there, and the fuel is not as widely available as gas.
How About a hydro-electric car? More spendy, but fuel economy wise…better.
hydrogen takes more energy to produce than it produces. there’s always bio deisel (if u use used cooking oil there are purifying kits u can buy, any diesel engine will use biodiesel, we use petrol b/c for the longest time it was significantly cheaper to refine and use. things have changed though.) and i heard of a car that runs on hemp oil.
our best choice is prob bio diesel..cheapest to produce. solar cells are not quite “there” yet. Electric batteries to store and operate an electric car are not “there” yet. Hemp has a lot of legal issues. Bio diesel is more environmentally friendly (no batteries)…my bet is bio diesel. Growing the corn and the production of the fuel will put more people to work. Solar is still Very expensive and weather unprodictable, too much for regular consumers
Well biodiesel is being used. You have to have an engine designed specifically for that purpose and it is a little more complicated than just pouring in grease, but it is possible. Also solar power is coming along. I read an article recently about a little car built in Japan that could travel like 800 miles or something like that on a solar powered battery but it was a really slow speed. It’s still in development really. Also some of the new hybrid engines use less feul because they take advantage of electrical power and more efficient engines.
As far as gas mileage is concerned, Toyota’s have some of the best gas mileage, even in some of their older models. I would suggest looking for a cheap used one of these and driving it. You can also conserve gas by maintenancing your car regularly and making sure the tires aren’t low. (actually, if you overinflate your tires just a tad bit you get better gas mileage) Other than that I don’t know what to tell you unless there is someone else you can carpool with and split the gas with.
Actually, there are other alternatives. And they do work. Hemp is one of these. But Bush has a lots of money tied up in oil. So he discontinued the project. And to make sure that it wasn’t;t refined, he also shut down the hemp farms.
There are these old stories that my uncle used to tell.. he worked for a big car company… they had several cars, some that got like 60 miles to the gallon in the 60’s… Big oil came in and purchased the copyright though, probably for billions for each car… no one can make them in that way without infringing on the copyright that the oil companies own…
hemp
corn, sugar, grain
hydrogen
solar
No, hydrogen is a rolling bomb. The old Zeppelins were filled with hydrogen, and if you know anything about history, they exploded in the sky and burnt up. A mass transit system is our only hope like the other Countries. Like trains and such. America doesn’t want to provide them; because privatizing the train systems has failed in the past with Capitalism.
How about we all go back to a horse and buggy, how do you thing the arabs would like that, They run on hay……
Chase has provided some very good links. Yes there are a number of approaches and in Brazil ethanol fueled cars have existed since 1975. Since 1979 5.4 million cars of this type have been in Brazil and a significant percentage of these cars have been manufactured in the United States.
Flex fuel cars were introduced into Brazil in 2003 and these same cars are now available in the United States. With in 1 hour of my home are two service stations selling fuel (85% ethanol) for these flex fuel autos. Additional stations are being planned in the near future.
An increasing percentage of diesel fueled vehicles (cars, trucks, and farm equipment) are using bio-diesel.
Hydrogen is not the big danger that some seem to think it is. The safety is in the storage system which have been demonstrated (in general motors) to take full destructive crashes and cause no explosion or fire. Its product can be accomplished with wind powered electrical generation systems which cuts the cost dramatically. In fact this becomes a storage of wind powered electrical energy as hydrogen.
All of this is available right now..
Actually we already have some but the oil companies have bought the designs in order to terminate them so they can keep their greedy selves getting the most money.
Some cars are using a fuel made from corn
In 1966 a friend of mine ask me to go along on a ride in a Roadmaster Buick Sedan. The owner of the sedan was a retired design engineer(not the guy that pilots the train). He showed us that he had disconnected the fuel line from the gas tank and had a rubber tube running from a 1 gallon can which was connected to a box that replaced the carborator of the engine. We drove in that vehical 53 miles into Reno, Nevada and there was still a small amount of fuel in the bottom of that 1 gallon can. He could not tell us how he had designed the inside of that box. He had sold the design to Standard Oil for $500,000.00, who also required him to give them the original box. The owner of that vehical died in Portola, CA.
There are already many alternatives. Most of us tinkerers (folks who’d prefer to build IT themselves) are fond of electric. It’s fairly easy to convert most compact cars from gasoline to electric, people have been doing it for decades. Converting to bio-diesel isn’t too tough if your car is already diesel (some say no change is needed at all?!) I found to be an excellent source of information on “how to…”
For me, I usually ride a motorcycle for long trips and TRY to remember to ride the bicycle for short trips. I’m very seriously contemplating converting one of my gasoline vehicles to electric, I’d consider it an honor to help one of my neighbors do the same.
British Petroleum has been working with the Iceland government and has had hydrogen vehicles for almost all of their public transit for about 5 years. (no nuclear explosions), Hydgrogen cell vehicles do not work that way.
We have had Ethanol vehicles in the mid west for over a decade, but have not exploited it nationally. The Biodeisel is also an option.
All of these are options, the problems lie in a plethora of tangled legislation and special interests (namely oil companies), the lack of innovation from the automanufacturers (our fault we haven’t told Detroit that unless they build something better we will take public transit), and we haven’t been active with our government officials to take action. Basically it is all of our fault (that is a collective). We cannot count on the government to fix the solution, we citizens will have to fix the problem. However, until things become more painful, the average american will not take action. We have become very lazy and complacent as an overall whole, and until gas hit $3 we were content because it had not hit our pain threshold.
So I would start calling your congressman and senator on a regular basis, and emailing them on a very frequent basis (no spam). The legislative issues must be addressed (things like restrictions on alternative fuel stations within the existing infrastructure, specifications as to tank size and distance limitations, etc.
Also write the automobile manufacturers (they might be listening at this point). Even if everyone began doing this, I would not count on a generally available solution within the next 3-5 years.
redy left
The fat cats who control gasoline prices know that high prices only affects and hurts the poor and middle class working people. The rich and super rich can afford whatever the price is.
I think if everyone would just quit driving for a week they would change things.. I know you have to go to work but,, sacrifice for a week. Protest..
There is a way, but even I myself do not expect it to happen.
1- First, we must make “Big-Oil” be responsible. It is absolutely criminal that one company made 39 billion dollars when we had the UN-for seen and astronomical events occur last year. They are in business to make a profit, and without the profit they will fail, which is not good, but under the circumstances, a profit of 15 billion would have be more than adequate and acceptable. No wonder we are having to “outsource for jobs”.
2- Second, the Federal Gov’t meaning the President, Senators, and Congressmen and Congresswomen have to decide if they are going to support the citizens instead of the large corporations!
It is not really very hard to understand why other countries do not respect America and Americans. They see our walk and and compare it to our talk, and know that we are not being ethical and straightforward with our citizens.
Sadly, it is going to get worse, before it gets better.
There is nothing wrong with penalties, and punishment and controls when things get out of control.
The leaders forget that one of their duties is to avoid situations such as this, and all they have done is accept lame excuses and money for their Political Action Committee.
Guess what folks i wrote a detailed analysis of the situation and as soon as i was going to write a link to find my blog to give further details my connection disconnected.
So i am to surmise that my ideas put forth to the department of transportation were proper yet they must have rocked their boat and i guess every keystroke is being monitered from a guy he that was a sworn in (oath of office)government civilian worker me and i can’t give further details… But ride your bicycles OR pay at the pumps and start to redesign your life to include these rising prices as of today there is no efficient CARPOOL system set up nor any ready viable alternative fuel that is also more efficient. A motor vehical has a lot of weigh there has to be emense explosive power to move pistons… and rubber bands and a breeze from a fan just doen’t suffice.
I live in an area that has coined it self as the best location in the nation and for me there is shopping at the end of my street and a mini strip mall a block a way plus if i cut through my neighbors yard there is a bus stup and i can travel from bus to train and if i make good connections be at the airport within perhaps twenty minutes. I pray that this sort of system becomes availible to each one of you in our futures. Start riding a bicycle its good for you and clearly there are no fuel costs other that rice beans and perhaps a glass of wholesome milk and our favorite oreo cookies. (more women whistle at you from a bike anyways)
Methane is the answer. Everybody makes it. We just need a way to increase the volumes and achieve proper economies of scale for all cars in the U.S. Local distribution is recommended.
Well, although that gas maybe a killer among money, what about magnetic power? You might have a chance on stop using fossil fuels completely and have a magnetic powered engine. It’s worth a try, and it just might work.
SANTA CRUZ, CA – Nanotechnology may hold the key to developing a viable hydrogen economy, according to Jin Zhang, professor of chemistry and biochemistry at the University of California, Santa Cruz. Zhang will receive 535,000 in grants from the US Department of Energy (DOE) for his part in two research projects aimed at developing new technologies for the production and storage of hydrogen fuel using nanostructered materials.
Producing hydrogen from water using solar energy is the focus of one of the projects. Zhang is leading that effort and is also a coinvestigator on a second project to develop a method for highly efficient hydrogen storage. Both of the three-year projects rely on a novel approach to create nanostructured materials with special properties. Nanostructure refers to dimensions on the scale of billionths of a meter.
“The goal is to produce clean energy”, Zhang said. “The idea of using solar energy and water as a source of hydrogen is very attractive, and we believe nanostructured materials can be used to do this efficiently”.
The grants are among 70 hydrogen research projects funded through a $64 million DOE initiative aimed at making vehicles powered by hydrogen fuel cells available, practical, and affordable for American consumers by 2020. Zhang’s collaborators on the hydrogen production project are Yiping Zhao of the University of Georgia at Athens and Wei Chen of Nomadics Inc. The hydrogen storage project is headed by Zhao and also involves Mathew McCluskey of Washington State University.
Hydrogen offers an attractive alternative to fossil fuels because it is highly efficient and clean. But major technological hurdles must be overcome to make the use of hydrogen fuel practical.
The first hurdle is how to produce hydrogen. Water molecules can be split to form pure hydrogen and oxygen using electricity ( a process called electrolysis). But the enviromental advantages of hydrogen would be lost if electricity used to generate it came from burning fossil fuels. Using solar energy to split water and generate hydrogen is not a new concept, but Zhang says his team’s approach could lead to a device efficient enough for practical use.
“We want to build a device that you can put in the sun, fill it with water, and get hydrogen without using any outside source of energy”, Zhang said.
The device will intergrate two kinds of solar cells – a photovoltaic cell to produce electricity and photoelectrochemical cell to produce hydrogen from the electrolysis of water. Both will use specially designed materials based on nanowires with uniform orientation. The main focus of the project will be on developing these nanostructured materials to optimize the eficiency of both the photovoltaic cell and the photoelectrochemical cell.
The researchers will use a technique called glancing angle deposition (GLAD) to fabricate the nanowire arrays. Zhao is one of the pioneers in the development of this technique of making nanowires and nanorods. Zhang’s lab will focus on characterizing the structure and properties of the materials Zhao makes and evaluating their suitability for achieving the highest possible efficiency for the photovoltaic cell and the photoelectrochemical cell.
The hydrogen storage project will also involve using the GLAD technique to fabricate nanostructured materials. One of the problems with hydrigen as a fuel is that it is a bulky gas that is not easily transported and stored. A promising solution is to store it in a solid form as metal hydride compound. Metal hydride nanostructures could greatly improve the efficiency of this type of storage, Zhang said.
“Nanostructures have a much larger surface area than bulk materials, so they could hold more hydrogen per unit weight”, he said.
The researchers plan to find the optimum conditions for fabricatin metal hydride nanostructures to achieve highly efficient hydrogen storage.
“The key to our success in each of these projects is the material. We need to understand the properties of these materials and then explore their applications and devices”, Zhang said.
Closer? yes. Not anytime soon. The corn thing may arrive this year or next. The hybrid option is here but too expensive and not plentiful enough for service options. It makes you wonder who the oil companies are in bed with to share in this oil/gas rape/profits. Big brother? ***! I used to love driving trucks but not anymore. I now drive a honda due to gas prices.
I am ex-military. And the government does have what they call multi-fuel 2.5 ton cargo trucks. I don’t really know if they have anything smaller than the 2 1/2 ton. They can be ran on either diesel, fuel oil, and yes vegetable oil. I have yet to see one because from my experiences it has all been talk among the troops and retired military.
Maybe I am wrong, and maybe someone could correct me if I am wrong.
I don’t know the answer to the question, but I am sure if we boycott and not purchase gas for a couple of days the gas prices will come down.!!!!!!
The best answer is electric powered autos, we already have cars that run just as well as gas powered but no one wants to have to plug in their cars or be worried about taking long trips and running out of juice.
I’ve been working on a way to adapt the electric cars we already have to run under their own power for an unlimited amount of time and without any outside sources.
In short, You can hop in your car and drive cross country non stop if you wish.
Big problem is no money or backing to make this happen.
NO you are a tonto; if their were alternatives it would be on the NEWS
There are a couple basic principles that everyone must understand.
1. Everyone must remember that Earth is pretty much a closed system except for the sun that gets in. That’s it!!!
We are fortunate to live now after millions of years after plants have decomposed to form oil and methane. All the work was done for us.
2. While economists preach price all of the time, you must consider how much energy it takes to get useful energy. There are energy costs. Price didn’t matter to the Easter Island inhabitants when they were dieing off because of lack of resources or to the Chaco Canyon people in New Mexico. They used up their resources!!!
It takes about 2 years worth of energy to make solar cells. That is, you break even in terms of the net energy you gain after two years of use. Remember, it takes electricity from coal, natural gas, uranium to power the plant that makes them as well as diesel fuel for the trucks that collect the materials.
Bio-fuels seem to be net negative but there is an ongoing debate about this. That is, people must realize that we use petrochemicals to fertilize the soil so that we can grow crops. Now, the plants get some energy from the Sun, but not very much. So, in essence, it’s just a shell game. It’s all from oil. Even if you use cow manure, where was it used before. To produce food somewhere else? In essence, we are burning food and removing more material from the natural recycling that goes on that replenishes the soil. Oh yes, and the grains that were used to feed the cow were cultivated with diesel machines.
Fortunately for life, the Sun’s flux (energy per unit area) is low enough. This is unfortunate for energy collection. Plus, it’s only there 12 hours a day. It’s actually worse than this since as the Sun moves from high noon, the flux is less. Furthermore, the Sun has to shine through more and more atmosphere as it sets. Lots of solar cells can help.
Hydrogen is another problem. It takes more energy to release hydrogen from bonds than the hydrogen can provide energy, disregarding the storage problems (safety, the energy used to compress and cool the stuff). However if we can use the Sun to power devices to produce the hydrogen, this can help. We definitely do need some liquid fuel for planes to work since batteries are much too heavy for their energy storage abilities.
Nuclear power plants are ineffecient unless you use fast-breeder reactors. It has been predicted that we would use up all the Uranium in the world in 30 years. Fast-breeder reactors involved weapons grade material (security risk).
Coal is nearing peak capacity. We use lots of this for producing electricity. This is also true of natural gas. We import more natural gas from Mexico and Canada all the time because we just can’t produce enough.
3. We are not running out of oil. There is plenty of it. The problem is, we are reaching the maximum capacity, that is, while the Earth is demanding more and more (85+ million barrels per day) as our population grows, we can only get so much out due to the fact that easy oil (Jed shooting at some food, all comin’ up in a bubbling crude) is fading away. We have to spend more energy and money (dig wells a mile deep in the ocean) to get what we demand. We are likely near the 50% point (total oil in the ground) The “peak oil” people claim that the peak is now. The Department of Energy (DOE) says 2030. A lot of this is based on analysis by Hubbert in the 50s where he accurately predicted the 1970s gas crisis. The press did a diservice to people because they believe that it’s always a matter of money. The fact was, the United States couldn’t produce to meet its demand. Without outside sources, we were in trouble.
I guess it’s like picking apples in a orchard. The 100 calorie apples used to take a quick 1 calorie movement to collect them on the lower branches. As time goes one, you have to get ladders to get the other apples. This takes more energy. Sure, the trees have plenty of apples, but it gets harder and harder to get them to the point where you almost need to eat an apple for each one you pick. This is dramatized but I think you’ll get the point.
We are going to have to start conserving and having less children, that’s all there is to it. There’s always cold fusion (very efficient nuclear reactions) but that may never happen. The best scenario, except for fusion, is a future where we grow things locally, conserve, and get energy from solar, wind, and fast-breeder reactors.
You can get most of the energy information from the DOE, or at least you could. The old link doesn’t work anymore. The DOE website does talk about all these alternatives but in the detail I am speaking of.
Oil has been THE enabler for modern civiliation.